| Item | Amount |
|---|---|
| Single Tournament | $35.00 |
| Both Tournaments | $60.00 |
| Division | Entry Fee |
|---|---|
| Longsword | $0.00 |
| Rapier | $0.00 |
Hanopen August will be happening August 23rd, 9 AM to 6:30 PM, with free sparring time afterwards. It will be two tournaments -- longsword and rapier, from 9-1:30 and 2-6:30, respectively -- and will cost 35 dollars for one and 60 for both. They will have a cap of 24.
If you judge, we'll pay you 60 dollars per event. (Assuming we're reasonably close to the tournament caps, of course. The vast majority of the budget is judge funding.) There's also a grocery store across the street, plus numerous quality restaurants a short walk away.
Three rounds of snake-seeded 4v4 half-pool Swiss, first round all one tier and the second and third rounds each being split into three tiers of 8. Then, with the seeding following the third round of pools, all fencers will advance to a full snake-seeded double elimination bracket.
Seeding will be done initially by HEMA rating, slightly adjusted as necessary to reduce the number of people fencing their clubmates. After the first round, seeding will be done cumulatively through spooky math, which will allow for mobility between tiers with particularly strong or weak performances. (For example, if you get put into the middle tier after round 1, you could win four matches in a row and almost certainly get moved up to the top tier in round 2.)
Link to original# Our MotivationJudging error is universally hated. As such, reducing its impact and how often it occurs is of significant importance. The vast majority of judging error comes from doubles, where two actions (each of which may or may not be quality) occur at the same time. Judging error in clean hits, either missing hits that were quality, calling hits that didn’t exist or weren’t quality, or mislabeling hits, is both far less common and borderline unsolvable. To reduce the occurrence of judging errors via the ruleset, it is thus beneficial to reduce the number of doubles. While one cannot reduce the number of accidental doubles or unintentional doubles, it is possible to reduce the number of purposeful doubles by offering a superior alternative, which for most tournaments (especially those in Europe) is the afterblow. We have attempted, with this ruleset, to give attempting a parry and then an afterblow a higher expected value than accepting a double. To reduce the impact of judging errors when they do occur in a double or potential double, it is thus beneficial to both reduce the overall impact of a double or overall messy exchange (without reducing impact so much that it becomes beneficial to double to effectively wash a non-beneficial exchange) and ensure that, in general, the action which is more likely to be seen wins a double. Finally, the judge criteria should be as non-detrimental as possible. All judging quality questions in the case of a double must be as clear as possible both in the moment and in recollection (for example, “did one blow control the hands or arms of the opponent” is not easily judgable). All judging quality questions in the case of a double must also not incentivize dangerous actions (for example, “did one blow hit much harder than the other” is not safe). And lastly, all judging quality questions in the case of a double should not be exploitable (for example, “did one blow land to the head while the other did not” is famously exploitable). We believe that we have succeeded in the first two, and somewhat succeeded in the third. # What Is Not Our MotivationThis ruleset does not in any manner, shape, or form attempt to encourage what we view as “artful fencing” or “martial fencing.” No decisions were made based on those criteria. We do not believe that it is productive to try to create a ruleset that incentivizes “artfulness” or “martiality”.# Point System * 5 points: clean hit to a deep target * cut/thrust/slice to head * thrust to torso * dominance in grapple * 3 points: clean hit to shallow target * all other clean actions not worth 5 or 2 points * 2 points: clean hit to legs * cut/thrust/slice to legs * 2 points: double with priority * 0 points: true doubleIllegal actions (any illegal action invalidates any action taken by the penalized fencer, and is added to whatever blow the non-penalized fencer either landed or was forced to pull) All penalties are assigned at the judges’ discretion.* Technical Foul: 2 points to the opponent * Exposing the back of head, or hitting it with culpability * Attacking after the hold * Generic unsafe action (anything that would make the opponent stop fencing) * Yellow Card: 5 points to the opponent * Significant excessive force * Repeated technical fouls * Substantially unsafe actions (reckless closing, leaping attacks, etc) * Red Card: Immediate loss, full points to the opponent * Intentional illegal action * Repeated yellow cards * Severely unsafe and dangerous actions (throws, joint manipulations, etc) * Harming another fencer with significant culpability * Poor behavior, unsportsmanlike conduct * Black Card: Out of the tournament, potentially banned from returning and/or told to leave * Intentional or repeated red cards * Trying to harm another fencer, or successfully harming them with full culpability * Appallingly unsafe and dangerous actions (pommel/guard strikes, punching, etc) * Severely poor behavior, extremely unsportsmanlike conduct * Actual criminal activityIf multiple fencers are penalized simultaneously with technical fouls or yellow cards then the point punishments are done subtractively. So if one fencer gets a technical foul while the other gets a yellow card, the fencer who committed the technical foul gets 3 points. In the case of a clean hit, the winning fencer receives the points for the hit. If the clean hit strikes two targets simultaneously, the higher-value target is taken. If the clean hit clearly strikes one target and then, by bouncing, glancing, or pressing, strikes a second, only the first target is taken. In the case of an afterblow (where the second hit lands in the tempo immediately following the first), the points of each blow are subtracted from the other. The first blow has a minimum of one, the second has a minimum of zero. Afterblows are also held to a far stricter standard of force, meaning that the threshold for excessive force for an afterblow is lower than for an initial hit. If the attack is dubiously an afterblow, be it potentially a double or potentially out of time, it is considered to be an afterblow. Only clear doubles and clear two-tempo actions, including both feints and actions requiring multiple steps, are not afterblows. If the arm must substantially pull back before extending again, this is out of time and not an afterblow. If a fencer lands both a double and an afterblow, then only the double is scored.
| Scores are: (fencer one, fencer two) | Fencer Two (hits second) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 point target | 3 point target | 2 point target | ||
| Fencer One (hits first) | 5 point target | (1,0) | (2,0) | (3,0) |
| 3 point target | (1,2) | (1,0) | (1,0) | |
| 2 point target | (1,3) | (1,1) | (1,0) | |
Judging error is universally hated. As such, reducing its impact and how often it occurs is of significant importance. The vast majority of judging error comes from doubles, where two actions (each of which may or may not be quality) occur at the same time. Judging error in clean hits, either missing hits that were quality, calling hits that didn’t exist or weren’t quality, or mislabeling hits, is both far less common and borderline unsolvable.
To reduce the occurrence of judging errors via the ruleset, it is thus beneficial to reduce the number of doubles. While one cannot reduce the number of accidental doubles or unintentional doubles, it is possible to reduce the number of purposeful doubles by offering a superior alternative, which for most tournaments (especially those in Europe) is the afterblow. We have attempted, with this ruleset, to give attempting a parry and then an afterblow a higher expected value than accepting a double.
To reduce the impact of judging errors when they do occur in a double or potential double, it is thus beneficial to both reduce the overall impact of a double or overall messy exchange (without reducing impact so much that it becomes beneficial to double to effectively wash a non-beneficial exchange) and ensure that, in general, the action which is more likely to be seen wins a double.
Finally, the judge criteria should be as non-detrimental as possible. All judging quality questions in the case of a double must be as clear as possible both in the moment and in recollection (for example, “was one blow more in the center line” is not easily judgable). All judging quality questions in the case of a double must also not incentivize dangerous actions (for example, “did one cut hit much harder than the other” is not safe). And lastly, all judging quality questions in the case of a double should not be exploitable (for example, “did one attack begin before the other” is famously exploitable if one includes cuts to the legs). We believe that we have succeeded in the first two, and somewhat succeeded in the third.
This ruleset does not attempt to encourage what we view as “artful fencing” or “martial fencing” with the exception of preferring thrusts to (far more visible) cuts. We do not believe that it is productive to try to create a ruleset that solely incentivizes “artfulness” or “martiality”.
Illegal actions (any illegal action invalidates any action taken by the penalized fencer, and is added to whatever blow the non-penalized fencer either landed or was forced to pull)
All penalties are assigned at the judges’ discretion.
An observed grabbing of the blade will count as a cut to the non-sword hand and, being illegal, will also invalidate any other scoring actions landed by that fencer. As such, a blade grab at any point will result in a clean cut against the grabber (to a poor target, so 2 points), with the highest-value blow being scored. (So if the grab happens after a clean cut to a deep target, the fencer will receive four points.) This is the only technical foul which counts as a hit and not plus 2 points.
Interposing the non-sword arm or hand in front of a cut is an illegal action, as it is unsafe. Doing so will invalidate any other scoring actions landed by the fencer who interposes their hand in front of a cut. Landing a strong cut to the non-sword hand is also penalizable at the judges’ discretion as an unsafe action and/or excessive force. If multiple fencers are penalized simultaneously with technical fouls or yellow cards then the point punishments are done subtractively. So if one fencer gets a technical foul while the other gets a yellow card, the fencer who committed the technical foul gets 3 points.
In the case of a clean hit, the winning fencer receives the points for the hit. If the clean hit strikes two targets simultaneously, the higher-value target is taken. If the clean hit clearly strikes one target and then, by bouncing, glancing, or pressing, strikes a second, only the first target is taken.
In the case of an afterblow (where the second hit lands in the tempo immediately following the first), the points of each blow are subtracted from the other. The first blow has a minimum of one, the second has a minimum of zero. Afterblows are also held to a far stricter standard of force, meaning that the threshold for excessive force for an afterblow is lower than for an initial hit. If the attack is dubiously an afterblow, be it potentially a double or potentially out of time, it is considered to be an afterblow. Only clear doubles and clear two-tempo actions, including both feints and actions requiring multiple steps, are not afterblows. If the arm must substantially pull back before extending again, this is out of time and not an afterblow. If a fencer lands both a double and an afterblow, then only the double is scored.
| Scores are: (fencer one, fencer two) |
Fencer Two (hits second) | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 point target | 4 point target | 3 point target | 2 point target | ||
| Fencer One (hits first) |
5 point target | (1,0) | (1,0) | (2,0) | (3,0) |
| 4 point target | (1,1) | (1,0) | (1,0) | (2,0) | |
| 3 point target | (1,2) | (1,1) | (1,0) | (1,0) | |
| 2 point target | (1,3) | (1,2) | (1,1) | (1,0) | |
Cut quality involves the following criteria:
Cuts with questionable quality under these criteria should be considered quality if they strike cleanly or as an afterblow, but they lose doubles as seen below.
In the case of a double (where the two blows land in the same tempo, AKA the second blow is in motion towards the opponent at the time of the first), the following list is considered. Each item is taken in turn, and if there is any uncertainty from the judges at all about a given item, it is ignored and the next is considered.
Motivation: Purely ideological. We believe that those cuts should always lose priority.
Placement Motivation: Again, purely ideological.
Exploitability: A fencer can simply tank a cut to the torso to purposefully double.
then it loses priority. If both attacks fit either criteria, the action is ruled a true double.
Motivation: Excluding the “did that cut/thrust hit arm or torso” question, this sort of thing is the largest source of judging error in rapier. Very often, a thrust that just barely misses is nearly indistinguishable from a thrust that just barely hits, and it can be difficult to exactly judge cut arc, especially during a complex or messy action.
Placement Motivation: This must be highly placed as it is such a significant portion of judge error.
Exploitability: This strongly incentivises thrusts to the torso and shoulder over thrusts to the head. We believe that this provides a significant improvement in safety that outweighs the risk of incentivising fencers to land harder thrusts to make the blade flex, but this does reduce the head’s value as a target.
Motivation: An obstructed attack is easily misjudged as barely parried or low quality.
Placement Motivation: This must be highly placed to disincentivize dangerous grugging.
Exploitability: This gives a strong advantage to counterthrusts, which can fail to fully protect from an attack but still win the double.
Motivation: An unclear attack is obviously easily misjudged.
Placement Motivation: Strong, forceful attacks have a tendency to make the other action unclear. As such, it is necessary for attacks which force their way through the opponent’s arms or blade to have lower priority to avoid grugging.
Exploitability: Strong, forceful, and obvious attacks draw judges’ eyes and make other actions in-time unclear.
Motivation: Low attacks are much easier for judges to miss.
Placement Motivation: This is placed above cuts > thrusts purely so that thrusts to the leg lose to cuts to higher-priority targets.
Exploitability: Defending the legs is unnecessary when a fencer can just full-send a counterattack and always win.
Motivation: Purely ideological, as we believe that the rapier is a thrusting weapon.
Placement Motivation: Not so ideological that it was placed highly, but still ideological.
Exploitability: Thrusting into a cut will win, even if that thrust is suicidal, unprincipled, accidental, or otherwise not a high-quality action.
Motivation: The more descending a cut, the easier it is to see.
Placement Motivation: It is more likely that a blow is missed due to any of the above criteria than it is to be missed due to being less descending. In addition, it is very easy to remember whether an attack was ascending or descending and so placing this at the end is not harmful.
Exploitability: Not much, honestly. Usually people don’t throw too many rising rapier cuts. Some tournaments even consider rising rapier cuts to be non-scoring, and people don’t even notice.
Motivation: Any judging decision past this point is likely to be totally random and thus actively harmful to consider.
We now have the following flowchart:
The only issue we have encountered thus far with this sort of ruleset is forgetting the flowchart. As such, when judging, it is advisable to have the flowchart printed out.
In our testing, there were relatively few judging errors which were in any way affected by the double/priority system. The vast majority of errors were with thrusts which either barely hit the mask and skipped off or barely missed, and actions which were so totally incomprehensible that all four involved people initially disagreed on what occurred. Doubles and afterblows in general were also rare, as the majority of actions were clean deep thrusts and cuts.
More testing is needed to see how much this ruleset does indeed reduce judging error with any degree of confidence.